IRC logs for #openrisc Sunday, 2017-02-26

--- Log opened Sun Feb 26 00:00:17 2017
-!- _florent__ is now known as _florent_00:33
-!- oleg-nenashev_ is now known as oleg-nenashev00:34
olofkshorne_: btw, I saw you wrote something about the opencores ethernet driver. Hasn't that been upstream for about 10 years already?01:33
olofkOr did I misunderstand?01:33
olofkHow does this docker thingie work? What can I do with those dockerfiles?01:38
olofkaha.. docker build01:45
wbxolofk: yes, i already told psychotrope to use buildroot or openadk. don't know why he didn't try it.02:10
wbxolofk: both have a pretty good handbook and a menu based config system. it is trivial to compile gpg for any arch.02:12
shorne_olofk: yeah, you are right, I didnt notice its the one called ethoc... I have been working on a few drivers I think I was confused.02:26
shorne_things not upstream are..  ps2, spi-oc-simple,  usb/host ohs900, gpio jptrivial, dma wbstreamer, arc scet02:29
shorne_Anyone know whats the user for scet timer?02:29
shorne_wbx: also, yeah I think its probably a better route to ask them to use one of those tools02:35
shorne_wbx: any links you could recommend for good docs?02:35
shorne_I think we can link to them from our linux page02:35
shorne_and tutorials02:35
-!- shorne_ is now known as shorne02:36
wbxshorne: both manuals?03:40
wbxshorne: ethoc in qemu system emulation doesn't work, are you going to fix it? :)03:41
psychotropewbx: I looked at both buildroot and openADK, and hoestly had no idea where to even start03:42
wbxpsychotrope: you downloaded anything?03:43
wbxpsychotrope: what opeating system do you use on your machine?03:43
psychotropenope, I got lost at the homepage for openADK lol03:43
psychotropewbx: linux03:44
psychotropedebian linux03:44
psychotropethis is my first time ever cross compiling anything03:44
psychotropeso yeah03:44
wbxpsychotrope: install git, git clone git://
wbxpsychotrope: what is bad on my new site?03:44
psychotropeI'm just a noob03:44
psychotropeI assume both buildroot and openADK are linux application toolchains like musl?03:45
wbxpsychotrope: no.03:45
wbxpsychotrope: musl is a POSIX conform C library. Like Gnu Libc and uClibc-ng.03:46
wbxpsychotrope: openadk/buildroot are Buildsystems to create a complete firmware for embedded sytems via cross-compilation. both can create a toolchain.03:47
psychotropeso these tools handle baremetal linux compiliation, application cross compilation, the whole package?03:47
wbxpsychotrope: buildroot has a bigger community, but only allows Linux as a host system. OpenADK can be used on Linux/*BSD, MacOS X and windows/cygwin.03:47
wbxpsychotrope: what is baremetal linux compiliation?03:47
wbxpsychotrope: you either have a bare-metal toolchain normally with newlib, to programm a C application without Linux operating system03:48
wbxpsychotrope: or you have a musl/uclibc-ng/glibc toolchain for Linux operating system03:48
psychotropeso something like newlib is used to actually get linux onto the hardware right?03:49
wbxpsychotrope: buildroot has no support for bare-metal toolchains. OpenADK allows to build bare-metal toolchain.03:49
wbxpsychotrope: no.03:49
psychotropemaybe I am saying it wrong03:49
psychotropeyeah ignore that03:49
psychotropethose two tools that you mentioned: they allow you to generate bootable linux with apps03:50
wbxpsychotrope: you should read more about the basic concepts, before starting such a complicated project ;P03:50
psychotropeokay I got something right03:50
wbxpsychotrope: buildroot only has recently added or1k support (uClibc-ng only).03:50
wbxpsychotrope: openadk has support for or1k-sim and qemu, for musl/uClibc-ng.03:51
psychotropewell, I've never had to runn baremetal on anything that wasn't massively abstracted before, and I've never had to cross compile apps03:51
wbxpsychotrope: let's say, openadk is my personal dev environment and I usually push stable stuff upwards to buildroot project.03:51
psychotropeso I don't have much of the basic experience in those fields as a result03:51
wbxpsychotrope: so all cutting edge stuff is in openadk, and if all works good, I push stuff to buildroot to test all supported packages (build-only) by the autobuilder projects.03:52
psychotropeso to make things easier, if I want to get started, which of the two should I start with?03:52
wbxit is a symbiosis ;)03:53
wbxpsychotrope: if you ask the developer of OpenADK, what do you think is the answer? make a guess ;P03:53
psychotropeI have no preference, but I can't use both (I assume)03:54
wbxpsychotrope: openadk prints out a help message how to start qemu or or1k, so i think it is more user-friendly03:54
wbxpsychotrope: you can just try both, and decide what fits better in your use-case03:54
psychotropewell I already have it cloned to my project folder, why not start there03:54
psychotropewell readme for openADK paints makes it sound very easy....03:57
psychotropewow I have no idea what I was thinking there03:57
psychotropebroken english03:57
wbxpsychotrope: it is, believe me. i have some users which are not really embedded hackers, and they use it ;P03:58
wbxpsychotrope: the screenshots in the manual are not uptodate. need to update them before a workshop next month.03:59
psychotropeI'm running through make menuconfig, this is actually making sense03:59
wbxpsychotrope: if you have any suggestions to the documentation, the code is in docs/03:59
wbxpsychotrope: choose Linux / or1k, either qemu or or1ksim, and build with the defaults.03:59
wbxpsychotrope: if all works, including bootup, go into make menuconfig again and customize.04:00
psychotropeand if I run this in hardware someday, what would I do from there?04:00
wbxpsychotrope: you can add your own kernel config and hardware type in really easy steps.04:00
wbxpsychotrope: i have a de0 nano and a bitstream, I just didn't started hacking on it.04:01
psychotropewell, I'd like to run on a DE0 nano eventually04:01
wbxpsychotrope: so start step by step.04:02
psychotropethats what I plan to do04:02
psychotropeif I haven't already put the cart before the horse to too great of a degree by starting this project at all04:03
psychotropebefore I go any further I think I'm going to stop and read up on configure and make04:17
psychotropeand cross compiling04:17
psychotropeso I don't bore people with dumb questions04:17
psychotropewbx: already there04:23
psychotropebut thanks :D04:23
shorneolofk: in the news again
shornewbx: thanks for those manuals, I was wondering if you had more of a step by step tutorial to link to from our tutorial04:30
shorneif not Ill add it04:30
wbxshorne: not really, maybe psychotrope can prepare one? :)04:31
shorneolofk: btw the docker thing is a bit new to mee to, I put some details in the readme04:31
shorneolofk: its easy once you know the basics04:31
shornewbx: that would be nice04:31
wbxshorne: any idea about the qemu ethoc issues?04:31
wbxpsychotrope: will you write down the steps you are taking?04:32
psychotropesure, I atually have been already04:32
psychotropeto some extent04:32
psychotropewbx: what do you want me to include?  just openRISC stuff right? (not my bumbling around on google learning about toolchain basics I suspect)04:33
wbxpsychotrope: step-by-step guide how to start with openrisc using either buildroot/openadk ..04:35
psychotropeif that would help04:35
psychotropewhy not04:35
wbxpsychotrope: may be ask shorne for wishes :)04:35
psychotropeI;m all ears04:35
shornewbx: wow, I didnt know about uclibc-ng, when did that start up again?04:36
wbxshorne: i started it in early 2015, first release on fosdem 2015 sunday.04:38
wbxshorne: 01.02.2015 1.0.004:39
shornewbx: great work, I thought uclibc was dead so havent bothered, sorry about that, need to add that to the website04:39
wbxi remember drinking a belgian beer (leffe) in the hotel in bruxelles ;)04:39
wbxshorne: i imported the old uClibc or1k port04:40
wbxshorne: and i run the testsuite regulary.04:40
wbxshorne: isn't so bad, even without NPTL.04:40
shorneit supports dynamic library linking?04:42
wbxshorne: yes04:57
shornecool. that faq here
shorneit says needs glibc loader?04:58
shorneWhat would you say is the advantage of uClibc over musl?04:59
shorneI am writing some updates to our website...05:00
shornefound this...
wbxshorne: not much. uClibc is more compatible to glibc, so more applications work out-of-the-box without patches05:04
shorneuClibc is more compatible to05:04
wbxshorne: musl is very strict to standards, so it breaks some apps.05:04
shornepasted from your mail ... :)05:04
shornethats what I thought05:04
wbxshorne: and uClibc has support for more architectures. not a plus for or1k.05:05
shorneDid you make any change to the toolchain prefix?05:05
wbxshorne: it is configurable. so you can disable a lot of stuff, if you have any size constraints.05:06
shornei.e. or1k-linux-uclibc-ng?05:06
wbxshorne: no. uclibc is left. and I have backward compatible .0 links.05:06
shorneor its still or1k-linux-uclibc05:06
wbxshorne: because that would require to patch gcc, config.guess... it is a dropin replacement05:06
wbxby design. :)05:07
wbxi used uClibc 10 years and was sad that it got bitrotted. maybe some day musl supports everything and I will put uClibc-ng to trash ;)05:09
shorneits good to have competition05:24
shorneits not good to have an unstable api :)05:24
wbxshorne: yeah :/05:25
shorneso, if you have a ton of apps running on uClibc, you dont want to have to move them05:25
wbxwe had recently a internal project @work, the old openwrt version used uClibc, then the new musl. this took some time to make all working again.05:26
wbxit was an atheros soc, so no good alternatives05:26
wbxshorne: btw, you are living in japan, right?05:27
wbxshorne: you don't have some contact to renesas electronics, do you? i always searching interesting boards for Linux/uClibc-ng testing. m32r is still missing in my collection. i recently got a hitachi edos devboard for h8/300 with h8s microcontroller :)05:30
shornewbx: I do have some contacts at renesas via linux community they are pretty big in Japan/embedded linux05:33
shorneThey will probably be here.
shorneyeah, I know about m32r maybe I can ask about getting one... the guys are pretty senior to me not sure if its right to ask for that kind of thing05:35
shornebut it I get the chance ill let you know05:35
shorneDo you have an SH board?05:35
wbxshorne: i have a fpga for sh2 (numato ..) and some old sh4 router sme575, and a hp jornada sh3. all not trivial to hack on :)05:41
wbxshorne: yeah cool. if you get some m32r for a developer, let me know :=)05:42
wbxshorne: unfortunately sh64/sh5 seems completely dead and removed from upstream binutils/gcc/gdb. seems only one devboard exist.05:44
wbxshorne: for a european it is really hard to get the japanese hardware. i had luck to work with andes technology to get nds32 hardware. but they are from taiwan.05:46
shorneI see, well, maybe just look in your car ? :)05:54
shorneIll see what I can do.05:55
wbxshorne: vw? :)05:55
wbxgot my new tiguan this week :)05:55
wbxbut actually i do not hack on my mac, iphone and my cars ;) that is a strict personal policy05:56
shorneI think lots of renesas in cars, probably not going to be easy to hack either with the weather protection they put on the electronics05:58
shorneI wouldnt hack on mine either05:58
shorneI put a section `Applications` on the openrisc website http://openrisc.io06:00
shorneAlso updated sections in the software page (linked to from index.html)06:00
shorneThe OpenADK project comes from the maintainers of uClibc-ng and is also a embedded linux construction kit. The team is active in the OpenRISC community so you can expect good support.06:01
shorneIt supports both musl and uClibc-ng.06:01
wbxshorne: thanks, very nice :)06:01
wbxshorne: that fits exactly the situation right now.06:02
shornenot an essay or anything, but will get people pointed in the right direction06:02
shornelet us know if it needs updating06:03
shornein the future06:03
wbxyes. i will check musl qemu support, when the next qemu update is out.06:03
wbxshorne: may be I can activate musl support in buildroot then. they normally prefer qemu support06:04
wbxshorne: may be this could be added somehow. br has a defconfig for qemu, openadk for qemu and or1k-sim06:04
shornewhy would qemu work different based on libc type? this is about user mode qemu?06:06
shornewell, would have to me06:07
shorneIm going to go out, have a good day06:08
wbxshorne: bye. musl seems to require sth in the kernel / qemu. (atomics)06:09
wbxshorne: it is system type. i start a build and we can take a look later06:09
olofkwbx: I have a sh4, in my Dreamcast :)08:15
olofkAlso, cool to hear about uclibc-ng08:15
olofkRegarding ethoc not working, does anyone have a clue? It could be a good old big-endian problem. We've seen that with other drivers that assumes LE08:19
olofkI think poke53281 had some problems with the virt stuff assuming LE08:19
olofkAlso, stekern added a hack to the OpenCores VGA driver that writes a register and reads it back to figure out if acceses need to be endian-reversed :)08:20
shorneAnyone see this?
shornethe reddit comments seem to not be very informed17:48
shorneolofk: about the ethoc driver in qemu, I think what huanyu mentioned was he was not using ethoc, but using a virtmmio driver20:55
shorneso, I guess that means not going via our ethoc driver?20:55
huanyushorne & olofk: I am not using the ethoc driver in kernel and the ethoc device model in QEMU. I am using virtio-net over mmio in both kernel and QEMU.21:25
huanyushorne & olofk: i believe blueCmd and poke53281 played with virtio and got it working but not sure if it is targeting QEMU or jor1k21:29
promachmay I know if mor1kx implements precise exception or not ?23:02
--- Log closed Mon Feb 27 00:00:19 2017

Generated by 2.15.2 by Marius Gedminas - find it at!