| --- Log opened Sun Feb 26 00:00:17 2017 | ||
| -!- _florent__ is now known as _florent_ | 00:33 | |
| -!- oleg-nenashev_ is now known as oleg-nenashev | 00:34 | |
| olofk | shorne_: btw, I saw you wrote something about the opencores ethernet driver. Hasn't that been upstream for about 10 years already? | 01:33 |
|---|---|---|
| olofk | Or did I misunderstand? | 01:33 |
| olofk | How does this docker thingie work? What can I do with those dockerfiles? | 01:38 |
| olofk | aha.. docker build | 01:45 |
| wbx | olofk: yes, i already told psychotrope to use buildroot or openadk. don't know why he didn't try it. | 02:10 |
| wbx | olofk: both have a pretty good handbook and a menu based config system. it is trivial to compile gpg for any arch. | 02:12 |
| shorne_ | olofk: yeah, you are right, I didnt notice its the one called ethoc... I have been working on a few drivers I think I was confused. | 02:26 |
| shorne_ | things not upstream are.. ps2, spi-oc-simple, usb/host ohs900, gpio jptrivial, dma wbstreamer, arc scet | 02:29 |
| shorne_ | Anyone know whats the user for scet timer? | 02:29 |
| shorne_ | wbx: also, yeah I think its probably a better route to ask them to use one of those tools | 02:35 |
| shorne_ | wbx: any links you could recommend for good docs? | 02:35 |
| shorne_ | I think we can link to them from our linux page | 02:35 |
| shorne_ | and tutorials | 02:35 |
| -!- shorne_ is now known as shorne | 02:36 | |
| wbx | shorne: both manuals? | 03:40 |
| wbx | https://buildroot.org/downloads/manual/manual.html | 03:40 |
| wbx | https://docs.openadk.org/html/manual.html | 03:40 |
| wbx | shorne: ethoc in qemu system emulation doesn't work, are you going to fix it? :) | 03:41 |
| psychotrope | wbx: I looked at both buildroot and openADK, and hoestly had no idea where to even start | 03:42 |
| wbx | psychotrope: you downloaded anything? | 03:43 |
| wbx | psychotrope: what opeating system do you use on your machine? | 03:43 |
| psychotrope | nope, I got lost at the homepage for openADK lol | 03:43 |
| psychotrope | wbx: linux | 03:44 |
| psychotrope | debian linux | 03:44 |
| psychotrope | this is my first time ever cross compiling anything | 03:44 |
| psychotrope | so yeah | 03:44 |
| wbx | psychotrope: install git, git clone git://openadk.org/git/openadk | 03:44 |
| wbx | psychotrope: what is bad on my new site? | 03:44 |
| psychotrope | nothing | 03:44 |
| psychotrope | I'm just a noob | 03:44 |
| psychotrope | I assume both buildroot and openADK are linux application toolchains like musl? | 03:45 |
| wbx | psychotrope: no. | 03:45 |
| wbx | psychotrope: musl is a POSIX conform C library. Like Gnu Libc and uClibc-ng. | 03:46 |
| wbx | psychotrope: openadk/buildroot are Buildsystems to create a complete firmware for embedded sytems via cross-compilation. both can create a toolchain. | 03:47 |
| psychotrope | so these tools handle baremetal linux compiliation, application cross compilation, the whole package? | 03:47 |
| wbx | psychotrope: buildroot has a bigger community, but only allows Linux as a host system. OpenADK can be used on Linux/*BSD, MacOS X and windows/cygwin. | 03:47 |
| wbx | psychotrope: what is baremetal linux compiliation? | 03:47 |
| psychotrope | vmlinux | 03:48 |
| wbx | psychotrope: you either have a bare-metal toolchain normally with newlib, to programm a C application without Linux operating system | 03:48 |
| wbx | psychotrope: or you have a musl/uclibc-ng/glibc toolchain for Linux operating system | 03:48 |
| psychotrope | yeah | 03:48 |
| psychotrope | so something like newlib is used to actually get linux onto the hardware right? | 03:49 |
| wbx | psychotrope: buildroot has no support for bare-metal toolchains. OpenADK allows to build bare-metal toolchain. | 03:49 |
| wbx | psychotrope: no. | 03:49 |
| psychotrope | maybe I am saying it wrong | 03:49 |
| psychotrope | yeah ignore that | 03:49 |
| psychotrope | those two tools that you mentioned: they allow you to generate bootable linux with apps | 03:50 |
| wbx | psychotrope: you should read more about the basic concepts, before starting such a complicated project ;P | 03:50 |
| psychotrope | correct? | 03:50 |
| wbx | yes. | 03:50 |
| psychotrope | okay I got something right | 03:50 |
| wbx | psychotrope: buildroot only has recently added or1k support (uClibc-ng only). | 03:50 |
| wbx | psychotrope: openadk has support for or1k-sim and qemu, for musl/uClibc-ng. | 03:51 |
| psychotrope | well, I've never had to runn baremetal on anything that wasn't massively abstracted before, and I've never had to cross compile apps | 03:51 |
| wbx | psychotrope: let's say, openadk is my personal dev environment and I usually push stable stuff upwards to buildroot project. | 03:51 |
| psychotrope | so I don't have much of the basic experience in those fields as a result | 03:51 |
| wbx | psychotrope: so all cutting edge stuff is in openadk, and if all works good, I push stuff to buildroot to test all supported packages (build-only) by the autobuilder projects. | 03:52 |
| psychotrope | so to make things easier, if I want to get started, which of the two should I start with? | 03:52 |
| wbx | it is a symbiosis ;) | 03:53 |
| wbx | psychotrope: if you ask the developer of OpenADK, what do you think is the answer? make a guess ;P | 03:53 |
| psychotrope | I have no preference, but I can't use both (I assume) | 03:54 |
| wbx | psychotrope: openadk prints out a help message how to start qemu or or1k, so i think it is more user-friendly | 03:54 |
| wbx | psychotrope: you can just try both, and decide what fits better in your use-case | 03:54 |
| psychotrope | well I already have it cloned to my project folder, why not start there | 03:54 |
| psychotrope | well readme for openADK paints makes it sound very easy.... | 03:57 |
| psychotrope | wow I have no idea what I was thinking there | 03:57 |
| psychotrope | broken english | 03:57 |
| wbx | psychotrope: it is, believe me. i have some users which are not really embedded hackers, and they use it ;P | 03:58 |
| wbx | psychotrope: the screenshots in the manual are not uptodate. need to update them before a workshop next month. | 03:59 |
| psychotrope | I'm running through make menuconfig, this is actually making sense | 03:59 |
| wbx | psychotrope: if you have any suggestions to the documentation, the code is in docs/ | 03:59 |
| wbx | psychotrope: choose Linux / or1k, either qemu or or1ksim, and build with the defaults. | 03:59 |
| wbx | psychotrope: if all works, including bootup, go into make menuconfig again and customize. | 04:00 |
| psychotrope | and if I run this in hardware someday, what would I do from there? | 04:00 |
| wbx | psychotrope: you can add your own kernel config and hardware type in really easy steps. | 04:00 |
| wbx | psychotrope: i have a de0 nano and a bitstream, I just didn't started hacking on it. | 04:01 |
| psychotrope | well, I'd like to run on a DE0 nano eventually | 04:01 |
| wbx | psychotrope: so start step by step. | 04:02 |
| psychotrope | thats what I plan to do | 04:02 |
| psychotrope | if I haven't already put the cart before the horse to too great of a degree by starting this project at all | 04:03 |
| psychotrope | lol | 04:03 |
| psychotrope | before I go any further I think I'm going to stop and read up on configure and make | 04:17 |
| psychotrope | and cross compiling | 04:17 |
| psychotrope | so I don't bore people with dumb questions | 04:17 |
| wbx | psychotrope: http://elinux.org/Toolchains | 04:23 |
| psychotrope | wbx: already there | 04:23 |
| psychotrope | but thanks :D | 04:23 |
| shorne | olofk: in the news again https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=OpenRISC-Linux-4.11 | 04:29 |
| shorne | wbx: thanks for those manuals, I was wondering if you had more of a step by step tutorial to link to from our tutorial | 04:30 |
| shorne | if not Ill add it | 04:30 |
| wbx | shorne: not really, maybe psychotrope can prepare one? :) | 04:31 |
| shorne | olofk: btw the docker thing is a bit new to mee to, I put some details in the readme | 04:31 |
| shorne | olofk: its easy once you know the basics | 04:31 |
| shorne | wbx: that would be nice | 04:31 |
| wbx | shorne: any idea about the qemu ethoc issues? | 04:31 |
| wbx | psychotrope: will you write down the steps you are taking? | 04:32 |
| psychotrope | sure, I atually have been already | 04:32 |
| psychotrope | to some extent | 04:32 |
| psychotrope | wbx: what do you want me to include? just openRISC stuff right? (not my bumbling around on google learning about toolchain basics I suspect) | 04:33 |
| wbx | psychotrope: step-by-step guide how to start with openrisc using either buildroot/openadk .. | 04:35 |
| psychotrope | sure! | 04:35 |
| psychotrope | if that would help | 04:35 |
| psychotrope | why not | 04:35 |
| wbx | psychotrope: may be ask shorne for wishes :) | 04:35 |
| psychotrope | I;m all ears | 04:35 |
| shorne | wbx: wow, I didnt know about uclibc-ng, when did that start up again? | 04:36 |
| wbx | shorne: i started it in early 2015, first release on fosdem 2015 sunday. | 04:38 |
| wbx | shorne: 01.02.2015 1.0.0 | 04:39 |
| shorne | wbx: great work, I thought uclibc was dead so havent bothered, sorry about that, need to add that to the openrisc.io website | 04:39 |
| wbx | i remember drinking a belgian beer (leffe) in the hotel in bruxelles ;) | 04:39 |
| wbx | shorne: i imported the old uClibc or1k port | 04:40 |
| wbx | shorne: and i run the testsuite regulary. | 04:40 |
| wbx | shorne: isn't so bad, even without NPTL. | 04:40 |
| shorne | it supports dynamic library linking? | 04:42 |
| wbx | shorne: yes | 04:57 |
| shorne | cool. that faq here https://www.uclibc.org/FAQ.html#shared | 04:58 |
| shorne | it says needs glibc loader? | 04:58 |
| shorne | What would you say is the advantage of uClibc over musl? | 04:59 |
| shorne | I am writing some updates to our website... | 05:00 |
| shorne | found this... http://buildroot-busybox.2317881.n4.nabble.com/uClibc-ng-td75626.html | 05:04 |
| wbx | shorne: not much. uClibc is more compatible to glibc, so more applications work out-of-the-box without patches | 05:04 |
| shorne | uClibc is more compatible to | 05:04 |
| shorne | glibc | 05:04 |
| wbx | shorne: musl is very strict to standards, so it breaks some apps. | 05:04 |
| shorne | pasted from your mail ... :) | 05:04 |
| shorne | thats what I thought | 05:04 |
| wbx | shorne: and uClibc has support for more architectures. not a plus for or1k. | 05:05 |
| shorne | Did you make any change to the toolchain prefix? | 05:05 |
| wbx | shorne: it is configurable. so you can disable a lot of stuff, if you have any size constraints. | 05:06 |
| shorne | i.e. or1k-linux-uclibc-ng? | 05:06 |
| wbx | shorne: no. uclibc is left. and I have backward compatible .0 links. | 05:06 |
| shorne | or its still or1k-linux-uclibc | 05:06 |
| shorne | good | 05:06 |
| wbx | shorne: because that would require to patch gcc, config.guess... it is a dropin replacement | 05:06 |
| shorne | yeah | 05:06 |
| wbx | by design. :) | 05:07 |
| wbx | i used uClibc 10 years and was sad that it got bitrotted. maybe some day musl supports everything and I will put uClibc-ng to trash ;) | 05:09 |
| shorne | its good to have competition | 05:24 |
| shorne | its not good to have an unstable api :) | 05:24 |
| wbx | shorne: yeah :/ | 05:25 |
| shorne | so, if you have a ton of apps running on uClibc, you dont want to have to move them | 05:25 |
| wbx | we had recently a internal project @work, the old openwrt version used uClibc, then the new musl. this took some time to make all working again. | 05:26 |
| wbx | it was an atheros soc, so no good alternatives | 05:26 |
| wbx | shorne: btw, you are living in japan, right? | 05:27 |
| shorne | yes | 05:28 |
| wbx | shorne: you don't have some contact to renesas electronics, do you? i always searching interesting boards for Linux/uClibc-ng testing. m32r is still missing in my collection. i recently got a hitachi edos devboard for h8/300 with h8s microcontroller :) | 05:30 |
| wbx | http://www.linux-m32r.org | 05:30 |
| shorne | wbx: I do have some contacts at renesas via linux community they are pretty big in Japan/embedded linux | 05:33 |
| shorne | They will probably be here. http://elinux.org/Japan_Technical_Jamboree_60 | 05:34 |
| shorne | yeah, I know about m32r maybe I can ask about getting one... the guys are pretty senior to me not sure if its right to ask for that kind of thing | 05:35 |
| shorne | but it I get the chance ill let you know | 05:35 |
| shorne | Do you have an SH board? | 05:35 |
| wbx | shorne: i have a fpga for sh2 (numato ..) and some old sh4 router sme575, and a hp jornada sh3. all not trivial to hack on :) | 05:41 |
| wbx | shorne: yeah cool. if you get some m32r for a developer, let me know :=) | 05:42 |
| wbx | shorne: unfortunately sh64/sh5 seems completely dead and removed from upstream binutils/gcc/gdb. seems only one devboard exist. | 05:44 |
| wbx | shorne: for a european it is really hard to get the japanese hardware. i had luck to work with andes technology to get nds32 hardware. but they are from taiwan. | 05:46 |
| shorne | I see, well, maybe just look in your car ? :) | 05:54 |
| shorne | Ill see what I can do. | 05:55 |
| wbx | shorne: vw? :) | 05:55 |
| wbx | got my new tiguan this week :) | 05:55 |
| wbx | but actually i do not hack on my mac, iphone and my cars ;) that is a strict personal policy | 05:56 |
| shorne | I think lots of renesas in cars, probably not going to be easy to hack either with the weather protection they put on the electronics | 05:58 |
| shorne | I wouldnt hack on mine either | 05:58 |
| shorne | I put a section `Applications` on the openrisc website http://openrisc.io | 06:00 |
| shorne | Also updated sections in the software page (linked to from index.html) | 06:00 |
| shorne | The OpenADK project comes from the maintainers of uClibc-ng and is also a embedded linux construction kit. The team is active in the OpenRISC community so you can expect good support. | 06:01 |
| shorne | It supports both musl and uClibc-ng. | 06:01 |
| wbx | shorne: thanks, very nice :) | 06:01 |
| wbx | shorne: that fits exactly the situation right now. | 06:02 |
| shorne | not an essay or anything, but will get people pointed in the right direction | 06:02 |
| shorne | let us know if it needs updating | 06:03 |
| shorne | in the future | 06:03 |
| wbx | yes. i will check musl qemu support, when the next qemu update is out. | 06:03 |
| wbx | shorne: may be I can activate musl support in buildroot then. they normally prefer qemu support | 06:04 |
| wbx | shorne: may be this could be added somehow. br has a defconfig for qemu, openadk for qemu and or1k-sim | 06:04 |
| shorne | why would qemu work different based on libc type? this is about user mode qemu? | 06:06 |
| shorne | well, would have to me | 06:07 |
| shorne | Im going to go out, have a good day | 06:08 |
| wbx | shorne: bye. musl seems to require sth in the kernel / qemu. (atomics) | 06:09 |
| wbx | shorne: it is system type. i start a build and we can take a look later | 06:09 |
| olofk | wbx: I have a sh4, in my Dreamcast :) | 08:15 |
| olofk | Also, cool to hear about uclibc-ng | 08:15 |
| olofk | Regarding ethoc not working, does anyone have a clue? It could be a good old big-endian problem. We've seen that with other drivers that assumes LE | 08:19 |
| olofk | I think poke53281 had some problems with the virt stuff assuming LE | 08:19 |
| olofk | Also, stekern added a hack to the OpenCores VGA driver that writes a register and reads it back to figure out if acceses need to be endian-reversed :) | 08:20 |
| olofk | IIRC | 08:20 |
| olofk | gtg | 08:20 |
| shorne | Anyone see this? https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/5w7htk/openrisc_for_linux_411_gets_some_optimizations/ | 17:48 |
| shorne | the reddit comments seem to not be very informed | 17:48 |
| shorne | olofk: about the ethoc driver in qemu, I think what huanyu mentioned was he was not using ethoc, but using a virtmmio driver | 20:55 |
| shorne | so, I guess that means not going via our ethoc driver? | 20:55 |
| huanyu | shorne & olofk: I am not using the ethoc driver in kernel and the ethoc device model in QEMU. I am using virtio-net over mmio in both kernel and QEMU. | 21:25 |
| huanyu | shorne & olofk: i believe blueCmd and poke53281 played with virtio and got it working but not sure if it is targeting QEMU or jor1k | 21:29 |
| promach | may I know if mor1kx implements precise exception or not ? | 23:02 |
| --- Log closed Mon Feb 27 00:00:19 2017 | ||
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