| --- Log opened Thu Oct 10 00:00:33 2013 | ||
| hansfbaier | _franck_: stekern: First rather complete version of the tutorial. Due to lack of time, I was not able to test everything. Please let me know how it goes. https://github.com/hansfbaier/openrisc-sockit-tutorial/blob/master/openrisc-sockit-tutorial.pdf | 06:05 |
|---|---|---|
| stekern | hansfbaier: excellent, do you mind if I put a link to the in the README? | 06:08 |
| hansfbaier | stekern: to the _ ? | 06:10 |
| hansfbaier | PDF? | 06:10 |
| stekern | I should probably try to get the sockit system into openrisc/orpsoc-cores too | 06:10 |
| stekern | s/to the/to that | 06:10 |
| hansfbaier | stekern: I hesitated to include the vmlinux-x.bin blob in the git | 06:10 |
| hansfbaier | stekern: so I used the link from your chocolate factory. | 06:11 |
| stekern | ah, that's fine. I don't expect it to be slashdotted ;) | 06:11 |
| stekern | it's hosted on a machine in my basement, so the up bandwidth is limited to 3mbit | 06:12 |
| hansfbaier | stekern: off-topic: I discovered arduino for android yesterday. Been able to compile and download to the nano via OTG from my Galaxy Nexus. Fun! | 06:13 |
| stekern | cool | 06:14 |
| stekern | I've never used arduino though | 06:14 |
| hansfbaier | stekern: I really like the mini-pros ($3.5/board) and the nanos ($7.5 / board). | 06:14 |
| hansfbaier | stekern: Because of the price and the size they are great as USB appliances for PC | 06:15 |
| hansfbaier | stekern: as GPIO/I2C/SPI-extenders for PC for example. | 06:16 |
| hansfbaier | stekern: Since the PC doesn't have those | 06:16 |
| stekern | I started out with AVR long before something like arduino even was considered, so it never really interested me | 06:16 |
| stekern | and I have a pile of custom avr boards with an ftdi chip and some pinheaders | 06:18 |
| stekern | and a custom bootloader that I wrote | 06:18 |
| stekern | so I kind of had my own "arduinos" ;) | 06:18 |
| hansfbaier | stekern: It's great for quick hacks. Due to the massive amount of code and libraries around, I was able to get a USB-serial to 1602 display appliance running in 1-2 hours. | 06:22 |
| hansfbaier | stekern: including patching the hardware | 06:22 |
| hansfbaier | stekern: coming back to the above, you probably mean the orpsoc-cores README, yes, of course. | 06:25 |
| stekern | it probably has it's place (the popularity shows that if nothing else), but I always felt that the AVR's are so simple on their own that abstractions aren't really necessary | 06:25 |
| hansfbaier | stekern: I really like their instruction set. I think it's beautiful. | 06:26 |
| hansfbaier | stekern: I always hated x86 assembly. That's why I never learned it. It's so ugly. I was spoiled learning assembly on the AMIGA / 68000. After that I would not touch x86 asm. | 06:27 |
| hansfbaier | (I actually did my first assembly on the Z80) | 06:28 |
| hansfbaier | I really like the RISC instruction sets, they are simple and beautiful. | 06:28 |
| stekern | I agree completely, I started with x86 assembler and later learned that there are actually more sane ways | 06:29 |
| hansfbaier | I read the OpenRISC instruction spec in 1-2 hours, and a day after that I had my first or1k-asm running | 06:29 |
| hansfbaier | (with some support on IRC) | 06:30 |
| stekern | and yes, avr has a pretty nice isa. I actually started out with PIC back in the day, but pretty quickly moved over to AVR | 06:31 |
| hansfbaier | stekern: Would be nice if someone tried out the tuturial (was it olof that's got is SocKit still in the garage?) | 06:33 |
| hansfbaier | s/git is/got his/ | 06:33 |
| stekern | yes, let's push him into start making some use of it! | 06:33 |
| hansfbaier | stekern: He can mail it to me if he does not want to :] | 06:34 |
| hansfbaier | stekern: I'll be glad to have another one | 06:34 |
| stekern | I think _franck_ could be a potential guinea pig too | 06:34 |
| hansfbaier | stekern: Yes, he seemed quite enthusiastic about it. | 06:34 |
| hansfbaier | stekern: One of my medium-to-long term goal would be PCI-Express on the SocKit: I already have 2 HSMC-connectors here. I'd like to design a breakout to PCIe and plug the SocKit into a PC. That would be fun | 06:35 |
| hansfbaier | s/goal/goals/ | 06:36 |
| hansfbaier | stekern: Could you recommend a PCB service that can do the hardened gold plating required for connectors? | 06:36 |
| stekern | hmm, I've used pcbcart for my hobby projects, but not sure if they can do that | 06:37 |
| hansfbaier | stekern: Do you know whether 2 layers are enough for PCIe, or would I need 4? | 06:39 |
| hansfbaier | stekern: impedance requirements etc. | 06:39 |
| hansfbaier | stekern: thanks for the tip | 06:40 |
| stekern | I have no idea, that's way above my PCB design capabilities ;) | 06:40 |
| hansfbaier | olofk: https://github.com/hansfbaier/openrisc-sockit-tutorial/ | 06:42 |
| olofk | Good $localtime everyone | 06:42 |
| hansfbaier | olofk: Ready to get the SocKit out of your garage? | 06:42 |
| olofk | no :( | 06:42 |
| olofk | But it's great with a tutorial. I will take a look at it even if my hardware is out of reach | 06:42 |
| hansfbaier | olofk: I could not test anything in my tutorial, so I really would appreciate some testing... | 06:43 |
| hansfbaier | s/anything/everything/ | 06:43 |
| olofk | I can understand that. I'll tell you how it goes when I have time to power up my board | 06:44 |
| hansfbaier | I tested it up to building of uboot+spl | 06:44 |
| hansfbaier | olofk: thanks | 06:44 |
| olofk | We SoCkittens try to help each other out :) | 06:44 |
| _franck_ | hansfbaier: you need a 4 layer board for PCIe | 07:28 |
| _franck_ | plus if you choose a cheap PCB compagny, make sure they give you the board stackup | 07:29 |
| _franck_ | hansfbaier: and make sure they have always the same stackup, because they often do not garantee it | 07:30 |
| olofk | hansfbaier: I got stuck at Section IV, step 9 in you tutorial | 07:39 |
| hansfbaier | olofk: symptoms? | 07:45 |
| olofk | No orange juice. Couldn't do pushups | 07:46 |
| hansfbaier | olofk: haha | 07:46 |
| hansfbaier | I forgot to mention that was optional | 07:47 |
| olofk | It's a great tutorial. We should get a link from somewher on the OpenCores wiki when you feel somewhat confident about it | 07:47 |
| hansfbaier | olofk: Well, if it works for you and franck I would be confident enough | 07:48 |
| hansfbaier | olofk: The tutorial also helped to serve me remember the steps I had taken myself. While writing I just realized I forgot quite a bit. Would have been hard to reproduce, If I needed that later | 07:49 |
| hansfbaier | _franck_: Thanks, good to know. On page 4 of http://agata.pd.infn.it/LLP_Carrier/New_ATCA_Carrier_web/Appnotes_And_Reference_Designs/PCB_SI/pcie_pcb.pdf it looked like 2 layers are enough for Microstrip. What source do you recommend to learn more about PCIe PCB design? | 07:57 |
| _franck_ | 2 layer are enough but wont match the impedance on a 2 layer PCB, the height is too big between layers | 08:01 |
| hansfbaier | _franck_: I see, thanks. | 08:02 |
| _franck_ | you have to have 2 layers "close to top" and 2 layers "close to bottom" | 08:02 |
| hansfbaier | _franck_: ? | 08:02 |
| _franck_ | I mean on a 4 layer board you have: copper -- prepeg -- copper ------------CORE --------------copper -- prepeg -- copper | 08:05 |
| _franck_ | http://www.google.fr/imgres?sa=X&biw=2133&bih=1146&tbm=isch&tbnid=XD-oykfGsggAOM:&imgrefurl=http://electronicdesign.com/embedded/resolve-stress-caused-high-speed-interfaces&docid=SGhj8QwlhS-jkM&imgurl=http://electronicdesign.com/site-files/electronicdesign.com/files/uploads/2013/06/0808DSpericom_Fig1.gif&w=595&h=335&ei=4V9WUqG6HJKQhQe1jIGIAw&zoom=1&iact=rc&dur=1&page=1&tbnh=140&tbnw=261&start=0&ndsp=20&ved=1t:429,r:0,s:0,i:84&tx=131&ty | 08:06 |
| _franck_ | hell of a link ! | 08:06 |
| _franck_ | http://electronicdesign.com/embedded/resolve-stress-caused-high-speed-interfaces | 08:07 |
| hansfbaier | _franck_: Wow that's a great article thanks! | 08:18 |
| olofk | I really want to find the time to get started with doing PCB. Seems like fun, and I have some ideas I want to try out | 08:18 |
| _franck_ | hansfbaier: https://docs.google.com/file/d/1ojWM85LQ4Ho6FHA2PUDassS7i_ieM__LgB14zqg89CbBYD1ZoPst41b3v7ZK/edit?usp=sharing | 08:33 |
| hansfbaier | _franck_: great, thanks! | 08:35 |
| hansfbaier | _franck_: That looks pretty comprehensive | 08:37 |
| _franck_ | the best doc I've ever found | 08:39 |
| hansfbaier | _franck_: Quite ambitious for one who never sent something to the fab, but I think a PCIe-HSMC breakout should be doable given enough time and care | 08:40 |
| _franck_ | pcie is not that hard to get working. I even made it works with hand solder wires to switch TX-RX lines ! | 08:42 |
| _franck_ | (short wires :)) | 08:43 |
| hansfbaier | _franck_: good to hear. Nice app would be to implement digital audio effects on the FPGA and use that as a DSP plugin for ardour/jack/LV2 | 08:43 |
| olofk | hansfbaier: That sounds a lot like what stekern was doing before he got sucked into the OpenRISC vortex | 08:47 |
| hansfbaier | :) | 08:48 |
| olofk | IIRC, he wanted to add a CPU to his FPGA synth design.. he just needed to fix some things with OpenRISC first. That was a few years ago | 08:48 |
| _franck_ | did you see that post here: http://opencores.org/forum,OpenRISC,0,3509 ? | 08:55 |
| olofk | _franck_: Yes, I did. I found the old posts very interesting and was planning to respond to it | 08:56 |
| olofk | A lot of the things there have been taken care of | 08:56 |
| _franck_ | ok | 08:56 |
| olofk | And other parts are on my todo list :) | 08:56 |
| stekern | heh, yes, looks like we actually live in the predicted future on many of the points made back in 2008 | 09:05 |
| stekern | #5 I discussed with juliusb during the conference, because that's something we should have | 09:08 |
| stekern | if nothing else, olofk beating my SDRAM controller about is a good example why | 09:09 |
| stekern | the problem he identified is that you have to have very well defined interfaces for that to make sense and even if you do, it will be harder to change them if you have testbenches depending on them | 09:10 |
| stekern | but I don't think that's an excuse good enough | 09:11 |
| stekern | so, I've put on my list of todo's to at least write some unit testbench for the MMUs | 09:13 |
| stekern | those have a fairly well defined interface that will not change a lot | 09:13 |
| stekern | (openrisc vortex) yup... but I've actually started to bring the synth back in to the picture, already translated some small module into verilog | 09:20 |
| stekern | I've also got an idea to my head to do a OPL2 midi synth clone, to get the right scummvm experience from mid-90's PC | 09:22 |
| knz | nice :) | 09:33 |
| olofk | stekern: That would be so cool. :) | 09:39 |
| stekern | I know, there's such a buzz around the old SID chips, no-one seems to really appreciate the crappy sound those old chips emit | 09:43 |
| _franck_ | I won't be able to generate the bitstream for the sockit on my virtual machine. What was the memory requirement ? 4GB ? | 09:45 |
| stekern | > 4GB | 09:46 |
| stekern | doing a SID clone would be kind of fun too though, not very original though. and a lot of it's appreciation comes from the analog filters, which are hard to emulate (properly) with digital circuits | 09:48 |
| stekern | I like the "analog" data format in gtkwave | 11:49 |
| ams | stekern: speak for yourself. | 11:50 |
| olofk | stekern: Yeah. I think it sucks | 11:50 |
| stekern | ? | 11:51 |
| olofk | That was a bit harsh, but I find it annyoing that it rescales all the time. I've been trying to use it to track the PC, but it has been frustrating | 11:51 |
| ams | stekern: not appreciating SID tunes | 11:52 |
| stekern | ams: I think you misunderstood, I meant that no-one seems to appreciate the nostalgia of the crappy sound the OPL2 emits | 11:54 |
| stekern | olofk: ah, yeah, it's perhaps not perfect. But it's pretty useful for synth development ;) | 11:55 |
| olofk | stekern: Nostalgia is extremely selective | 11:55 |
| olofk | stekern: But then you are using it for it's intended purpose which might be a better idea than my PC hunting :) | 11:56 |
| ams | stekern: i appreciate it, i love sid | 11:57 |
| stekern | ams: yeah, me too... but SID != OPL2 | 11:57 |
| ams | stekern: shurg, OPL2 is also nice :-) | 11:58 |
| stekern | ams I even did this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYdOhU_aUH0 | 11:58 |
| ams | nice :-) | 11:58 |
| ams | not 8-bit, but i still listen to a lot of xm | 11:59 |
| stekern | me too | 11:59 |
| ams | was happy to find a clone of ft2 that one can use in gnu ... | 11:59 |
| ams | (never was a scream tracker person) | 12:00 |
| ams | stekern: beat this, hand cranked 33 player is what my girlfriend and i listen to when chilling to music ... 1920's jazz, foxtrot, stuff like that :-) | 12:01 |
| olofk | ams: Ha! 33 1/3? Is that what you youngsters use to play your stressing noises? Everyone knows that the good music is on the 78's | 12:03 |
| olofk | (I actually do have a couple of 78's, but nothing that plays them) | 12:06 |
| ams | olofk: erm, sorry, i meant 78! you didn't have 33's in the 20ths | 12:06 |
| ams | i think they came about in the 30ths ... | 12:07 |
| ams | http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Portable_78_rpm_record_player.jpg | 12:08 |
| olofk | I also do some hand cranking when I want to relax | 12:08 |
| ams | something akin to that ... gf bought it at some scrapyard | 12:08 |
| ams | olofk: haha | 12:09 |
| olofk | That's a nice machine. | 12:09 |
| ams | only thing that sucks is that each side is 2 minutes and you need to crank often :-) | 12:09 |
| olofk | I have some fetish for portable record players, but all mine are more modern 33/45 and battery powered | 12:10 |
| ams | nod | 12:10 |
| ams | get a 78 .. seriously, they are quite fun, and cheap | 12:10 |
| ams | or gimme your vinyls! | 12:11 |
| olofk | I have two of these http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7166/6431129629_10016ff1c9_z.jpg . They should play 78, but I'm not sure that the needle will handle them | 12:11 |
| ams | phonographs are i find quite relaxing... | 12:11 |
| olofk | pornographs, yeah. I agree | 12:12 |
| ams | you need a gf ... both for handcranking, and other things. | 12:12 |
| olofk | Oh, I have plenty of gif already | 12:12 |
| ams | haha | 12:13 |
| ams | as for needles, your needles would get crappy really quickly .. | 12:13 |
| ams | according to normal usage, one needle is used for 20 playings or there abouts .. | 12:13 |
| ams | normally small gold needles as well that you would give to your grocery shop to sharpen | 12:14 |
| ams | and the difference in needles is huge .. | 12:14 |
| olofk | Oh.. and I guess using a vinyl needle would wear it down even quicker | 12:14 |
| olofk | A needle for vinyl records I mean | 12:14 |
| ams | definitly | 12:14 |
| olofk | Need to get a dedicated player | 12:15 |
| ams | i need to get a 33 | 12:15 |
| olofk | :) | 12:15 |
| olofk | My biggest problem is that I don't have a CD player any more. Still like them, but can't play them anymore | 12:16 |
| ams | i wonder actually if one could get a needle sharpener or something | 12:16 |
| ams | http://www.windupgram.co.uk/hints.htm | 12:17 |
| ams | cool ... i'm getting such needles | 12:17 |
| olofk | Last christmas I hooked up a USB DVD writer to my raspberry pi, wrote a udev rule to launch mplayer when a disc was inserted. Set mplayer to listen to a pipe and connected a TAC-2 via GPIO with a small daemon that read the gpio and wrote to a pipe | 12:18 |
| olofk | What actually prevented it all from working was that apparently mplayer refuses to read from the pipe when it's not associated with a terminal, which is the case when it's started by the udev rule. Stupid OS | 12:19 |
| ams | lame | 12:20 |
| ams | stupid mplayer i say | 12:20 |
| olofk | yeah. Maybe that's the main problem | 12:20 |
| juliusb | You're a busy man during the Christmas period, olofk. OR1200 patches and raspberry pi hacking | 12:37 |
| olofk | juliusb: Yeah. That was embarrasing. Stupid bugzilla timestamps :) | 12:44 |
| ssvb | does anybody know if any possible Intel MMX patents have already expired by now? | 14:03 |
| juliusb | it seems we weren't alone in holding a conference last weekend | 14:52 |
| juliusb | http://www.ohwr.org/projects/ohr-meta/wiki/OHW2013 | 14:52 |
| juliusb | Javier Serrano has a good intro | 14:52 |
| juliusb | Im thinking a state-of-the-project presentation might have been good, too | 14:53 |
| juliusb | His slide on ohwr.org mentions it doesn't require registration ;) | 14:54 |
| frubbl | This could be interesting: http://www.ohwr.org/projects/ohr-meta/wiki/OHW2013#1430-1500-Migen-Sébastien-Bourdeauducq-Slides | 22:04 |
| frubbl | Has a wishbone interconnect generator. | 22:05 |
| juliusb | there's some really interesting presentations on there | 22:06 |
| juliusb | the one given by Matthieu Cattin looks very interesting | 22:06 |
| juliusb | talks about the different components they have | 22:06 |
| juliusb | and mentions the SDB - self-describing bus, that's certaliny something which should go into ORPSoCv3 | 22:07 |
| juliusb | it looks like SystemVerilog support is picking up, too. Maybe we can start using typedefs for busses and the like | 22:11 |
| juliusb | oh cool!: http://iverilog.wikia.com/wiki/SIMBUS | 22:13 |
| juliusb | not sure we'd need it, but it's a cool idea | 22:14 |
| --- Log closed Fri Oct 11 00:00:34 2013 | ||
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