| adam` | Hi guys. Just watched some of the OpenRISC PM 2012. If you are in here Jeremy I want to thank you for being so awesome. =) | 04:03 |
|---|---|---|
| GentlemanEnginee | Hello. | 04:29 |
| glowplug | Hello. =) | 04:33 |
| GentlemanEnginee | How fares the battle? | 04:57 |
| glowplug | I wish I knew. I just joined the channel for the first time. =( | 05:01 |
| GentlemanEnginee | I am in the same boat. | 05:02 |
| GentlemanEnginee | Which of us is the captain? | 05:02 |
| glowplug | Based on the openrisc pm 2012 at least julius and jeremy I recognize. | 05:04 |
| GentlemanEnginee | You apparently know more than I... | 05:05 |
| GentlemanEnginee | I was looking at contributing. | 05:05 |
| GentlemanEnginee | However, I have yet to have a reply to either emails or forum posts. | 05:05 |
| glowplug | Simon cook also is in the list. I think thats everybody in the channel who attended. | 05:06 |
| glowplug | I would also like to contribute but it seems difficult for mortals. O.o | 05:06 |
| GentlemanEnginee | It was my understanding that the group was open to contributors... | 05:07 |
| glowplug | *difficult for mortals to comprehend* | 05:11 |
| GentlemanEnginee | I am no expert. However, I hope I can muddle on through... | 05:12 |
| GentlemanEnginee | I was looking at the Bugzilla for OR1200 RTL. | 05:13 |
| GentlemanEnginee | I saw bug #91. | 05:13 |
| GentlemanEnginee | It is somewhat stale, and wished to confirm that it had not yet been dealt with prior to delving in. | 05:14 |
| glowplug | You might want to hang onto your pants for the 2k version CPU because they are supposedly completely redesigning the core. | 05:18 |
| glowplug | Which will bring a whole host of new bugs and needed work. | 05:20 |
| GentlemanEnginee | Are bugs no longer being dealt with on the previous core? | 05:20 |
| GentlemanEnginee | Also, how does one become involved in the 2k core design? | 05:21 |
| glowplug | I assume that they will be. But with no production ASIC based on 1k it's my opinion that those bugs can probably be ignored. | 05:21 |
| glowplug | That I don't know yet. And mostly why I'm hanging out in here. =) | 05:21 |
| GentlemanEnginee | It could be a springboard to bring myself up to speed... | 05:21 |
| GentlemanEnginee | If you do mind my inquiry, what is your involvement with the project? | 05:22 |
| glowplug | I watched the entire 2012 openrisc meeting on youtube then joined this channel. 8) | 05:25 |
| GentlemanEnginee | Ah! I was unaware of the youtube channel. | 05:26 |
| GentlemanEnginee | Do you have a URL? | 05:26 |
| glowplug | This is the video I'm watching right now. The description has the rest. | 05:26 |
| glowplug | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbZNxo6o4lY | 05:26 |
| GentlemanEnginee | I thank you kindly. | 05:27 |
| glowplug | 8) | 05:27 |
| GentlemanEnginee | What is your background on this? | 05:27 |
| glowplug | That was my full disclosure of my background in the openrisc project specifically. My personal background is amature software/hardware developer. | 05:29 |
| GentlemanEnginee | What manner of hardware, if you do not mind the inquiry? | 05:29 |
| glowplug | Computer machining, circuit design, hobby level work. =) | 05:32 |
| GentlemanEnginee | By computer machining, are you referring to CNC? | 05:32 |
| glowplug | Right. CNC, 3d printing, robotics ect. | 05:34 |
| GentlemanEnginee | I have some experience with the third. | 05:34 |
| GentlemanEnginee | I have been eyeing the first two. | 05:34 |
| glowplug | If you have experience with robotics then CNC and 3dprinting are trivial. | 05:35 |
| GentlemanEnginee | When I have some time (ha!), I have wished to build a RepRap. | 05:36 |
| glowplug | If you don't have an immediate need for a repid prototype I would highly suggest waiting to build a printer. There is going to be a massive influx of SCARA and DELTA based printers within the next year that are vastly superior to cartesian machines. | 05:40 |
| GentlemanEnginee | That surprises me little... | 05:40 |
| GentlemanEnginee | I likely will not have the time to build it for some time, anyhow. | 05:41 |
| GentlemanEnginee | Are you based in North America, or Europe like much of group appears to be? | 05:43 |
| glowplug | I'm primarily interested in orisc for the implimentation a 6-axis articulated robot. North America. =) | 05:43 |
| glowplug | That's unfortunate because this is the future of all technology. | 05:44 |
| GentlemanEnginee | That *does* sound interesting. | 05:44 |
| GentlemanEnginee | At the moment, I am attempting to stay one shovel ahead of the snow. | 05:45 |
| glowplug | Honestly it seems like most of us have spoons not shovels... | 05:46 |
| GentlemanEnginee | I do not believe a spoon would have great efficacy in battle against the snow I have... | 05:47 |
| glowplug | HAha | 05:47 |
| GentlemanEnginee | Have you looked much at the internal architecture? | 05:49 |
| glowplug | Briefly. I'm familiar with Harvard chips. Still mostly interested in learning the details of the 2k architecture as information is released. Mostly for the improved modularity and scalability (which the 1200 isn't so good at). | 05:50 |
| GentlemanEnginee | I am curious about this 2k as well. | 05:53 |
| GentlemanEnginee | Perhaps inspecting the 1200 would provide you with some inkling as to the internals of the 2k... | 05:54 |
| glowplug | The basic operation of a Harvard chips are all comparable. What takes the most time to understand are the details of the implimentation. | 05:56 |
| GentlemanEnginee | Yes. | 05:57 |
| GentlemanEnginee | However, their design methodology, and many of the modules would likely be reused. | 05:58 |
| glowplug | This is true. We could probably benefit from learning Verilog and C also. Doesn't seem to be enough time for it all. =) | 06:01 |
| GentlemanEnginee | I know C, and a little Verilog. | 06:02 |
| glowplug | You are in a much better position to contribute immediately then me it seems. 8) | 06:03 |
| glowplug | *than | 06:03 |
| GentlemanEnginee | Did you not use C in your robotics work? | 06:04 |
| glowplug | Lazy. Python. O.o | 06:04 |
| GentlemanEnginee | Ah... | 06:06 |
| glowplug | There is an OR2K discussion on Youtube. The audio quality isn't very good but it's good information. | 06:06 |
| GentlemanEnginee | C is really worth learning. | 06:06 |
| glowplug | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMobPnpbHpw&feature=youtu.be | 06:06 |
| GentlemanEnginee | It is simple, elegant, and constructive. | 06:06 |
| GentlemanEnginee | What is that video? | 06:06 |
| glowplug | A discussion of the 2k architecture. | 06:08 |
| GentlemanEnginee | I shall view it later. | 06:08 |
| GentlemanEnginee | You have obviously done some more research than I. | 06:08 |
| glowplug | Probably not much more. Trust me. 8) | 06:09 |
| GentlemanEnginee | I can recommend "The C Programming Language" | 06:12 |
| GentlemanEnginee | It is written by Kernighan & Ritchie, who created C. | 06:12 |
| glowplug | Python can compile down to C using PyPy and Cython. I may eventually learn C but it | 06:13 |
| glowplug | It's not a priority. | 06:13 |
| GentlemanEnginee | I don't know if I would attempt embedded programming in any other language--except for assembly, of course... | 06:14 |
| glowplug | No reason to waste your time in assembly when python can run at near realtime. Just get a superfast SoC for ~$5 and install linux on it. | 06:18 |
| glowplug | Our time is precious, cpu cycles are cheap. =) | 06:19 |
| GentlemanEnginee | Embedded is often accomplished without an OS, or something small like FreeRTOS. | 06:19 |
| glowplug | Web applications are often accomplished without a framework. But it's hardly an efficient use of anyones time. | 06:20 |
| GentlemanEnginee | I have written several simple web pages in that manner. | 06:21 |
| GentlemanEnginee | For something simple, it is often not worth the effort in bending a framework to one's whim. | 06:22 |
| glowplug | That is simply a case of using the wrong size framework. When I design simple websites for friends and family I use html5 boilerplate and twitterbootstrap. This is the propper sized framework for a simple informational site. | 06:23 |
| glowplug | Starting with raw html and CSS the same site would take me 20 times longer. Extremely slow. | 06:23 |
| GentlemanEnginee | Perhaps I have not spent the appropriate effort in acquainted with various frameworks. | 06:23 |
| glowplug | Frameworks is just a fancy way of saying "letting someone else do 80% of my work". The 80/20 rule ect. | 06:24 |
| GentlemanEnginee | I am familiar with the concept. | 06:24 |
| GentlemanEnginee | I have been looking at the EPICS framework for control systems. | 06:25 |
| glowplug | In many ways Python is a framework when applied to embedded development. Because it does most of your work for you at the extremely small cost of extra hardware (32-bit SoC vs 8/16 bit uC). | 06:25 |
| stekern | glowplug and GentlemanEnginee: we are all mortal here (I can feel my mortality especially, with a flu coming down :() | 06:27 |
| stekern | i.e. contributors are more than welcome, no matter at what level | 06:27 |
| stekern | I was at the pm too btw ;) | 06:27 |
| GentlemanEnginee | I hope that I do not have to suffer the afflictions of mortality... | 06:27 |
| glowplug | Thanks for trying to make us feel better stekern. But I still know the truth. =) | 06:28 |
| GentlemanEnginee | What initial steps are necessary to commence contributing? | 06:28 |
| glowplug | EPICS looks very interesting. It's unfortunate that it's only soft-realtime it's unsuitable for robotics. | 06:29 |
| GentlemanEnginee | I suppose that would depend on your robotics requirements... | 06:29 |
| glowplug | stekern you are Stefan K? | 06:30 |
| glowplug | I need sub 4 microsecond latency unfortunately. Soft-realtime doesn't qualify. =( | 06:31 |
| GentlemanEnginee | Unlikely. | 06:31 |
| GentlemanEnginee | It might for your CNC and 3D Printing, though... | 06:31 |
| stekern | or2k is (still) in a very early stage of development, most of the development is still concentrated on or1k | 06:32 |
| glowplug | The latency threshhold for that is sub 10 uS. Really only LinuxCNC is suitable. | 06:33 |
| stekern | as for the or1200 development, julius (and I) are working on mor1kx, which is meant to be a "better" (cleaner/more modular/faster/smaller) implementation of or1k | 06:33 |
| GentlemanEnginee | I was looking at the Bugzilla for OR1200 RTL, and saw Bug #91. | 06:33 |
| glowplug | So you are Stefan K. I wanted to thank you for your incredible work. =) | 06:34 |
| stekern | yes, I'm Stefan =) | 06:34 |
| GentlemanEnginee | It appeared a bit stale, and was wondering if it was still worth looking at. | 06:34 |
| glowplug | *bows* | 06:34 |
| stekern | but or1200 haven't been left to die, it's still been around a lot longer and is probably a lot more stable than mor1kx is yet | 06:35 |
| GentlemanEnginee | Is the bugzilla still being used? | 06:35 |
| stekern | for or1200 development, yes | 06:36 |
| glowplug | What about for mor1kx? | 06:36 |
| stekern | mor1kx lives here: https://github.com/openrisc/mor1kx | 06:36 |
| glowplug | I just puled it up. =) | 06:37 |
| glowplug | Google is our friend. | 06:37 |
| glowplug | Scaling sideways you guys have already figured out mostly (with regards to mor1kx). What do you think the cores future is in terms of performance scaling per-core? | 06:39 |
| stekern | we are a bit spread out, it's a long story about peoples preferences for tools and work flows, but we have at least agreed on keeping http://opencores.org/or1k/OR1K:Community_Portal as the common place for all development | 06:39 |
| glowplug | ^Already had that one bookmarked. 8) | 06:40 |
| stekern | glowplug: hmm, not sure what you are asking | 06:41 |
| glowplug | On Altera I could probably expect ~60 mips. Do you expect ~1000 mips on an asic at say 1ghz? | 06:42 |
| stekern | if you only execute out of 1-cycle memory, yes | 06:43 |
| stekern | penalty for slow memory accesses grows with cpu freq (naturally) | 06:44 |
| glowplug | Any plans to tackle that in mor1kx? | 06:45 |
| glowplug | (by the way 1k mips is absolutely amazing if it is achievable with the existing architecture). | 06:46 |
| stekern | the problem of slow memory is out of the scope of a cpu core (apart from having caches, which it already has) | 06:46 |
| stekern | I'd expect any RISC architecture to scale with the cpu-freq in regards of MIPS if you disregard memory accesses | 06:47 |
| glowplug | It seems like there really is quite a lot more reading that I need to do. This is what I meant about the mortal thing. =) | 06:48 |
| glowplug | Unfortunately I'm in the States and it is getting pretty late. I hope to catch you guys in here tomorrow. =) | 06:49 |
| stekern | The one that has learned most before he dies win, that's the game we mortals play ;) | 06:49 |
| GentlemanEnginee | Unfortunately, I must also arise in the morrow. | 06:50 |
| glowplug | There is a lot of truth in that. Talk to you later Stefan, and Gentleman. :) | 06:50 |
| GentlemanEnginee | I thank you kindly, stekern. | 06:50 |
| stekern | see you | 06:54 |
| mboehnert | hi there! is there anybody who has experiences with the advanced debug system (and ubuntu 12.10) | 12:01 |
| _franck_ | mboehnert: what is your problem ? | 12:41 |
| juliusb | GentlemanEnginee, glowplug: Hi, thanks for your interest - as stekern said, you don't need to be an RTL wizard to help us out in this project | 13:28 |
| juliusb | but it'd help to get up to speed with what we've been doing lately | 13:28 |
| juliusb | stekern: I was thinking of an idea which maybe Johan Rilegard or jeremybennett mentinoed at the meeting last year, which is a catch up skype conference call every now and again for people to talk about what they'ev been doing | 13:29 |
| juliusb | since the meeting _franck_ has done a heap of awesome work on GDB and the sim | 13:30 |
| juliusb | it'd be cool to have people like Peter Gavin let us know what they've been up to etc | 13:30 |
| stekern | juliusb: I think it was one of the polish guys that brought up that idea | 13:39 |
| stekern | but regardless of whos idea it was, it could be a good idea | 13:39 |
| -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: juliusb, asm, forkG | 13:43 | |
| juliusb_ | woah netsplit | 14:05 |
| juliusb_ | yeah I agree | 14:05 |
| juliusb_ | i'll post to the maililng list suggesting it | 14:05 |
| stekern | problem could be finding a time that suits everybody | 14:06 |
| stekern | I vote for 4:00 am EET ;) | 14:06 |
| stekern | at all other times I will have screaming kids around me (or be at work) | 14:07 |
| juliusb_ | ya | 14:07 |
| juliusb_ | hmmm | 14:07 |
| juliusb_ | evening? | 14:07 |
| juliusb_ | (says the single male) | 14:07 |
| juliusb_ | the thing that I may have to occupy me is the pub | 14:08 |
| ams | juliusb_: Whisky. | 14:08 |
| * juliusb_ nods at ams | 14:24 | |
| juliusb_ | or that | 14:24 |
| -!- juliusb_ is now known as juliusb | 14:24 | |
| jeremybennett | juliusb: That's a good idea. We also ought to be planning this year's opencores meeting. We'd be quite keen to host it in the UK (with Embecosm support). Possibly in London or Cambridge. | 15:31 |
| mboehnert | @_frank_ : it seems like ads does not compile right. i found an old binary which is running well, but a new one (svn/trunk) seems to detect a wrong jtag id and therefore does not connect to the openrisc-system | 15:32 |
| juliusb | jeremybennett: I like that idea. | 15:41 |
| _franck_ | mboehnert: you may also want to give a try to openocd | 15:42 |
| _franck_ | https://github.com/openrisc/openOCD | 15:42 |
| _franck_ | what is your openrisc setup (tap, debug unit, jtag adapter) | 15:43 |
| _franck_ | ? | 15:43 |
| mboehnert | i use the vanilla openrisc1200v3 debug interface, ads (trunk) jtag tap and the OpenRISC USB-JTAG Degugger. i am aware of the breakpoint-bug in this configuration. other than that everything was fine until switching over to ubuntu 12.10 and recompiling the whole (gcc-)toolchain/simulator/ads | 15:46 |
| mboehnert | and i also use the jtag bridge supplied by ads... | 15:48 |
| _franck_ | it's been a long time I haven't use advance debug gdb server. You should post on the openrisc forum | 15:56 |
| mboehnert | thank you, i'll post there and i will look into openOCD | 16:01 |
| -!- asm_ is now known as asm | 17:56 | |
| glowplug | Good morning. I think Skype is a good idea. Also a good quality conference microphone because I can't hear anything in the YouTube videos. O_O | 18:23 |
| glowplug | Also in regards to the conferences. An overlay of the slides, and a microphone for the presenter instead of a cam-mic which tends to get what everyone else is saying very clearly and not much of what the presenter is saying. 8) | 18:26 |
| glowplug | Not a big deal for you guys but for outsiders looking to contribute it is hard to get information when both the YouTube videos and the website are not very friendly. | 18:27 |
| juliusb | glowplug: I agree with your suggestions - they would make for an improvement but it was an issue of lack of resources | 18:37 |
| glowplug | We need to get some donated equipment located in that case. =) | 18:38 |
| glowplug | I'm watching your mor1kx presentation right now. Do you guys have any PDF's for it yet? | 18:39 |
| juliusb | yes I think they were put somewhere | 18:52 |
| glowplug | If I get some spare time I will try and build a pair of microphones from this project and send them out to you guys before the next conference. | 18:59 |
| glowplug | http://www.stefanavalos.com/microphones/smallcardioids/diymic01.htm | 18:59 |
| juliusb | glowplug: see this page for PDFs of the slides: http://opencores.org/or1k/OpenRISC_Project_Meeting | 19:20 |
| juliusb | (it's linked to from the main page now, too) | 19:20 |
| glowplug | Fantastic! Also I finally noticed that you have a pdf build for the mor1kx docs. 8) | 19:22 |
| juliusb | (I think it works!) | 19:32 |
| juliusb | that documentation isn't great at the moment | 19:32 |
| juliusb | I intend on adding a lot more detail before we do a release | 19:32 |
| glowplug | That would be awesome. The good documentation is so important for getting people onboard to contribute. It can really seem impossible to help when you guys are all so talented. O_O | 19:46 |
| glowplug | I'm interested in the ASIC production drive that you guys did. Are there still plans to manufacture the ORPSoC in its current form? | 19:48 |
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